Comments on The Mormon Anomaly: Meat and Mormonism Part I: Insulated Consciences, ...

I can't tell you what an answer to my prayers this...

2009-06-16T14:43:19.179-04:00

I can't tell you what an answer to my prayers this article has been. This has been heavy in my heart for the last few days which is why I went searching.Thank you so much for the work you put into it!

I've gone back and forth from being a vegetarian to vegan a few times in the last 17 years of my life. I've raised my children as vegetarians/vegans(depends on how strong we are feeling that year). Many know my Dad, who has been very vocal in the church about vegetarianism. I won't mention who he is as I know he sparks controversy among those who know him. I shy away from that kind of attention. I'm a quiet, non-confrontational vegetarian. Its ironic because I'm not shy at all about most things or quiet for that matter. Hek, I was a Drama Champion! But when it comes to this,I have just had my fill of hurtful experiences with fellow church members so for many years I have kept it very quiet. However, my heart has been so heavy lately. How do I strengthen my own children when they are taunted and mocked by scouts or not considered when ward dinners or picnics are planned, etc.? How do I help strengthen them when some of their church leaders' lifestyles and conversations and talks contradict what they've been taught by their parents? I've tried to be very light-hearted in public about it and accommodating. But inside and within my family, it has been disheartening. I'm thinking that maybe I shouldn't be so "quiet" about it anymore. But how do I do this and not incited contention or offend the Spirit? How can I be a good example? I guess these are answers that I need to find for myself through the help of the Spirit.

I think your examples of Mormon culture is accurate with my own experience as well. I grew up in Utah, lived in Chile, served a mission in Spain, and have lived in Washington for 15 years. When it comes to the roll of meat, attitudes among church members seem to be the same no matter where I have lived.

Anyway, I suspect that I am not alone in this but it can sure feel like it. If any of you have any suggestions on how to strengthen a vegetarian family within the church, I would love to read your suggestions.

Thank you again for the article.

I thoroughly enjoyed this article. I am tempted t...

2009-06-10T12:06:12.322-04:00

I thoroughly enjoyed this article. I am tempted to carry it around with me and just hand it to all the members of the church who question my eating habits. :) I made a link to your article on my blog, blogokimberly.blogspot.com

Thank you for your very thoughtful comments. As o...

2009-03-31T09:53:00.000-04:00

Thank you for your very thoughtful comments. As one who feels strongly about protecting this beautiful earth and every living thing on it, I feel assured that the problem in Mormon society is not the doctrine but the culture. The scriptures are quite clear, as you ably point out, that our diets should be mostly vegetable, fruits, and grains (and modern dietary science increasingly points to the virtues of such a diet), just as the scriptures speak abundantly of man's stewardship relationship to the natural world. While in the past I've mostly kept my thoughts to myself when around fellow Mormons, in recent years I've tried to find common ground in discussing these issues. So, while I don't eat meat for mostly environmental and social justice reasons, I find it useful to first talk about the Word of Wisdom when speaking with Mormons. I don't showcase my views, but people I think sincerely want to know why I eat what I eat. One avid hunter/meat lover surprised me when he asked, "So I bet you feel really good with that kind of diet." Somehow he knew that a vegetable heavy diet is better for the body.
Again, thanks for your thoughts.

I really enjoyed this article. There was clearly ...

2009-01-31T00:34:00.000-05:00

I really enjoyed this article. There was clearly a lot of work and research and thought put into this and I appreciate all the quotes. I had an inner struggle lately about this issue and a lot of things were put to right by your words. Thank you.

Check out this link http://maxwellinstitute.byu.ed...

2009-01-07T15:41:00.000-05:00

Check out this link http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=49&chapid=301

Not very many people know that Joseph Fielding Smi...

2009-01-07T15:32:00.000-05:00

Not very many people know that Joseph Fielding Smith was himself a vegetarian. Based on all of the statements that he has made concerning that topic it is clear that he does so out of a conviction that he was trying to follow the Word of Wisdom as closely as he could. Religion certainly can and does dictate one's conscience.(irregardless of a letter written to the shakers) I don't think that it's right to assume the prophet Joseph Smith jr's "opinion" based on "historical context." The section was a letter that was read to the shaker congregation (not yet converted) and was not addressed to shaker converts.
Thank you Mark for a wonderful read. I have been working on a compilation of quotes and scriptures as well so that I could more readily explain to family and friends why I am vegan. I told my dad that I wasn't going to eat the food at a family function because of my decision, His reply, "read section 89." It's good to know that I'm not alone in my frustrations.

An interesting post- apparently historical context...

2008-12-03T18:21:00.000-05:00

An interesting post- apparently historical context is significant when studying the scriptures.

Perhaps, for your next topic you would consider tithing- net or gross. See how many friends this will make you in our church!

I can tell a lot of thought has gone into your pos...

2008-11-26T11:37:00.000-05:00

I can tell a lot of thought has gone into your position on eating and animal rights, and that is to be admired! :-) However, you put the verse you were quoting from D&C in only partial context - it was indeed a statement from the Prophet Joseph because the LDS religion had great appeal to the Shaker faith, where most people were vegetarian in relation to religious observance (as you noted). But the scripture wasn't intended to appeal to the Shakers, but rather to address a practice that the Shaker converts were bringing over to the LDS Church - that is, they still believed that vegetarianism was associated with religion. Joseph Smith was addressing these people who try to tell others that not eating meat was a higher law than the Word of Wisdom - those who abstain from meat and forbid others to partake of it as well are NOT ordained by God, as in, this is a personal decision that religion is not involved in.
This is also the orgin of the next scripture, which is also obviously intended to rebute Shaker beliefs that Joseph Smith felt did not belong in the LDS church - that of abstaining from marriage. If indeed, as you stated, these scriptures were meant to appeal to Shakers, Joseph would have ommitted this for sure, since Shakers believed STRONGLY against marriage :-)
I thought that perhaps a little clarification would help you fully understand this scripture - I've learned a lot about the history of the D&C and it's amazing how historical context can explain so much! Anyways, I hope that this comment is only taken in a constructive way, as it is intended :-)

Finding this was incredible for me! I'm mormon and...

2008-10-29T02:08:00.000-04:00

Finding this was incredible for me! I'm mormon and vegetarian, and recieve a lot of negativity for it from my relatives ("you can't have strong babies if all you eat is rabbit food") and friends ("come on, just TRY steak. how do you know you don't like it if you won't try it?") I personally don't eat fish, as it is meat, and when I do buy dairy products, I try to get them from local farms so that I know the animals are treated well. Back at home we have chickens for eggs, but obviously that doesn't work in an apartment!

Max, I appreciate your comments. I think it is imp...

2008-08-21T23:52:00.003-04:00

Max, I appreciate your comments. I think it is important to let people know of conscious decisions (dietary or otherwise) in light of the knowledge and understanding that one has obtained. It seems that you agree with this whole-heartedly.

I make sure that people are aware of my dietary decisions if they invite me over to eat, for example. If anybody ever asks for food suggestions for a church activity I clearly and diplomatically state that I think there should be a viable vegetarian option. Last week, without my having to say anything, veggie hot dogs were brought to FHE instead of regular hot dogs, something I was pleasantly surprised by. Institute barbeque's, as another example, now regularly have garden burgers available because of a request I made long ago. Most situations, I've found, aren't difficult to approach if a little foresight and tact is used. And a TON of good is accomplished by a a little humility combined with boldness. Others see my actions, question things for themselves, and change.

Yet sometimes there are situations when, I feel, more damage than good would result from a complete, total, strict, and vocally stated adherence to eating no meat or animal products.

These situations arise fairly rarely (less than once a year), and usually happen when relationships are very delicate or are already strained, such as eating over at the home of someone who you are trying to invite back to church, or a surprise meal made for you for your birthday or something to that effect.

You are right - these situations are in actuality extremely rare, and by and large don't occur if one is thinking ahead in confidence and tact. Furthermore, many of these situations, if handled, well, don't have to result in my or your eating of meat.

Yet I recognize that no one is perfect in their foresight, that tact for some is a difficult characteristic to develop, and that often vegans and vegetarians cause more harm than good for their cause by their lack of diplomacy. PETA, I feel, is a good example.

Maybe this is a fairly open-ended response, but as you know, in the end you and I and everyone have to figure out for ourselves where that line between damage and progress lies.

-Mark

Hi Mark,Great post. As long as we can write anecdo...

2008-08-21T23:52:00.002-04:00

Hi Mark,

Great post. As long as we can write anecdotally about Utah's eating habits, I think the percentage of the state population with adulthood obesity is a relatively good indicator of diet. Upon a preliminary search you might find Utah pretty low on the list of obese states in the US, but we have to remember the large population of children in the state, who tend to be less obese, throwing off the total obese population percentage. An adulthood obesity map is available here which suggests that Utah probably eats just as much meat as everywhere else in the nation.

I am a mormon vegan, and have been for over two years. I suppose that I have to deal with some baggage because of that label, but since I match the definition I just try to educate people about what it means. I wrote about it here a while back.

I know of a few people who, like you, would be vegan or quasi-vegan if it weren't for awkward social situations, principally ones at church functions. While I believe there should probably be some compromise --I have never gone to find out if the sacrament bread contains an animal product-- I wonder what prohibits you, in any given situation, from explaining that you don't eat meat or some other animal products? When ward members have invited my wife (who is also vegan) and I over we have explained that we follow a pretty strict diet and, if they don't have time to make vegan dishes, we'll gladly come to eat salad, drink and be social. Perhaps we have offended a few people; perhaps I am thick-headed in my complacency that some people will be unavoidably offended. It seems that the vegan news travels pretty quickly around ward and workplace alike (perhaps I make it so) and I don't have to do too much explaining.

Like you, I am trying to come closer to truth, and am not trying to be antagonistic. It's possible I could make more of a difference if I were label-less and more flexible. I am willing to admit that. Just wondering what your thoughts might be.

Wow. I just have to say this is an amazing article...

2008-08-21T23:52:00.001-04:00

Wow. I just have to say this is an amazing article. I hope it stays for years to come, because this is definitely one I will revisit.

Mark,What an incredible and thoughtful article. Yo...

2008-08-21T23:52:00.000-04:00

Mark,

What an incredible and thoughtful article. You have obviously devoted an impressive amount of time and contemplation to this issue.

As far as your conversation with the institute teacher is concerned, I always find it interesting when people immediately position themselves on the defensive - as though your personal choices are some sort of indirect condemnation of theirs.
Also, you are far more diplomatic than I am in your understanding of the ever shifting continuum of doctrine (forbiddeth vs. biddeth). Haha. Maybe i'll try to start adding footnotes to some of my documents (i.e. the Wesley Snipes tax route where his tax return was subtly altered with software to state that he filed under "no" penalty of perjury. By the way, he was convicted of fraud for that.)
By the way, I was the first sister to advocate vegetarianism (and I think I'm also slightly taller than Aleisha).